Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  11

  Evolution is a Fact #25 - Deep Time

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the 18th century the calculations of archbishop james ussher regarding the age of the earth were still accepted without question.

  according to ussher god made the earth at 6pm on the evening of saturday 22nd october 4004 b.c.. this naive certainty was to become a victim of the scottish enlightenment and the brilliant mind of james hutton.

  having qualified as a medical doctor in 1749 hutton returned to the family farm in berwickshire not far from where i am typing this now.

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  Island Man

  Excellent!

  You should do one on the development of different languages. There are striking parallels between the development of different species and the development of different languages. Incidentally, creationists ascribe both to divine intervention. But the reality of the development of new languages within recent human history - English, Spanish, French, etc - exposes the folly of the Babel story and it also serves as a practical test case or mirror of how evolution works.

  For example the segment from 2:30 to 2:50 in the following video, which speaks about the ability to intercommunication among neighboring Romance language dialects is very much reminiscent of the ability to interbreed among neighboring species in phenomenon known as ring species.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o140Ni6yiM
  
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  98

  OKAY, GAME OVER! The number one reason the New Testament amounts to bunk

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for me, the dead giveaway is this.

  jesus wrote nothing.. stop and think about that.. if jesus were the authentic messiah, his ministry would not simply be local.. his instructions, his mission, the details of his teachings would be too precious to risk leaving it in the hands of "men unlettered (illiterate) and ordinary (blue-collar yokels).".

  jesus, were he the one and only hope of mankind, would be absolutely certain to write down with great simplicity and specificity the exact owner's manual necessary to rescue mankind.. never happened!.

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  Island Man

  What are you talking about, Jesus did leave writings - they just weren't included in the heavily cherry-picked NT cannon. Do you seriously believe that there aren't any actual books purportedly written by Christ?
  
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  10

  Why do EX-JW's try to argue the bible/doctrine with JW's?

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've watched a few judicial committee videos on youtube.

  they all start out great but eventually the person starts to bring out bible teachings and doctrine.

  i understand that 99% of their teachings are complete crap, but to me it's a pointless battle.. as a jw growing up i remember being on countless calls where a jw would argue the trinity with the householder.

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  Island Man

  You have a point. It is best to avoid doctrine. But I think some doctrinal issues are clear enough to expose the JWs as being wrong. Other issues are open to interpretation and its pointless trying to argue it with them.

  As an example, consider the policy of not clapping when it is announced that someone has been reinstated. That was a clearly unscriptural policy given what Jesus said about the rejoicing of the Father of the prodigal son and the rejoicing of angels when a sinner repents.

  But even when you can show the elders that Watchtower is flat out wrong about certain clear cut issues, the elders resort to the reasoning that the org. is not perfect and you need to wait on Jehovah and who else has the truth, etc.

  So even when you're able to expose a few clear cut doctrinal problems that they can't honestly deny, it's not enough for them to concede that you are justified in leaving Watchtower.
  
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  23

  Peace and Security!

  by biblexaminer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  watchtower teaches that soon there will be a huge development that will be a sign for jehovah's witnesses!

  5:3 the watchtower magazine, principle journal of jehovah's witnesses, writes.... however, just before that day of jehovah begins, world leaders will be saying “peace and security!” this may refer to one event or to a series of events.

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20120915/world-end/#?insight[search_id]=2038590d-e4a0-4101-89db-27102bef34ba&insight[search_result_index]=19.

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  Island Man

  Im not so sure this rendering is accurate:

  4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day.+ We belong neither to night nor to darkness.

  There may be an error in the translation or the actual manuscript copy. Since the immediate context talks about the day itself coming as a thief in the night, it seems that the verse should actually be saying something like:

  4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as thieves would, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day.+ We belong neither to night nor to darkness.

  It's not comparing asleep christians to thieves but rather as victims of thieves - the thieves being the day of destruction that comes unexpectedly like a thief in the night. That's my theory anyway - that there's a translation error or an error in the manuscript.

  Also I don't believe the part about them saying peace and security is an actual declaration by the governments. The verse does not say exactly who makes this declaration - or that it's even a declaration, for that matter. I suspect that the verse is simply referring to the fact that the end will come unexpectedly, catching people at a time when they have a complacent, secure attitude - when they feel at peace and secure, oblivious to any coming destruction.

  This harmonizes with what Jesus said in Matthew 24 when he said people would be eating, drinking, marrying, building, grinding at the mill and working in the field - all activities that denote normal everyday life at a time of peace and security rather than a time of crisis. Jesus illustrated this by drawing attention to the everyday activities of people. Paul is being more direct and to the point, mentioning that people would be caught by surprise when they least expect - when they feel at peace and secure.
  
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  375

  This thread is for proof that God exists

  by juandefiero in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

  if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

  (1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

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  Island Man

  "But reality shows that evolution tends toward similar forms all the time. It seems to have a deeps structure."

  That's because the finite nature of the natural world, pre-existing anatomy and the laws of physics mean there are only so many kinds of forms that can be achieved. Natural constraints result in a certain threshold of variety which cannot be surpassed. So you would inevitably find the same functions/forms evolving multiple times.

  As an example, we see legs being used for locomotion in multicelluar organisms but we never see wheels. Pre-existing anatomy - maybe a fixed vascular and neural network - imposes a constraint that makes it virtually impossible for wheels to develop in complex multicelluar organisms
  
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  61

  The Watchtower Org will die.

  by Freeandclear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just reading through some posts and had a startling realization.. the comment that sparked this went something like this: why oh why when i started into this in 1989 did i not research the history of the wtbts?

  etc....... i too was studying and moving towards baptism around that same time.

  i got dunked in dec of 1990.. my thought.

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  Island Man

  I believe growth will slow due to greater exposure of the religion online. But I don't see that killing the org. altogether.

  Watchtower is very good at brainwashing JWs to practice self-censorship by demonizing apostates; by telling them to avoid apostate information; and by telling them negative information on JWs is all lies.

  Sure, many young JWs and pre-JWs will get access to TTATT - those brave enough and rebellious enough to defy Watchtower propaganda. Such ones are typically in the minority. Plus, even when JWs are exposed to TTATT a large percentage of those exposed put up psychological walls of denials and rationalizations so that the TTATT has no real effect beyond inducing a temporary bout of cognitive dissonance.

  So yes online exposure will have an effect on growth but the effect will not be overpowering. Also, once Watchtower notices that online exposure is having a significant effect they will step up on the propaganda warning JWs not to visit questionable sites and not to read negative info. on JWs. They may even return to demonizing the internet as a whole, telling JWs they're only safe visiting the organization's website(s).

  Think of the fact that there's mountains of scientific information online proving evolution and exposing creationism. Does that fact destroy fundamentalist creationists? No. Neither will online exposure of JWs destroy the organization altogether. The worst that will happen is that they will get very few if any members from the non-JW public and their growth will slow to near natural population growth through the baptism of born-in, indoctrinated-from-birth children of JWs.

  Online exposure will not be the factor to put an end to the religion. It would be one of multiple factors.
  
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  29

  Deleware child abuse case major implications

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  follow case it may change judicial comittees

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  Island Man

  Since JWs often boast about being different in that they don't have clergy, why are they now citing clergy-penitent privilege to justify not reporting to the police? Isn't that hypocrisy? I'm interested to see how JWs respond to this.
  
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  27

  What's the purpose of being a JW now?

  by MrTheocratic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with all the recent changes to this religion, what really is the purpose of being a jw?

  especially for those who have been in and witnessed all the changes and still no sight of the end.

  for these ones in particular (35-55 year olds) they must be in a state of confusion.

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  Island Man

  The only viable purpose in being a JW is to avoid being shunned by JW family - that is if you already are a JW. There is no purpose in becoming a JW.
  
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  375

  This thread is for proof that God exists

  by juandefiero in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

  if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

  (1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

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  Island Man

  God does exist . . . but only as a pernicious thought virus in the minds of believers.

  There is no proof for the actual extra-cerebral existence of God. That is why religionists invented the concept of faith.They tell you it's virtuous to be credulous and sinful to be skeptical. Thus they make a virtue out of folly and they demonize wisdom and sound philosophy - and that's how we end up with a world of religious quackery.
  
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  40

  Who Picks The Governing Body?

  by millie210 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey everyone,.

  just a simple straight forward question on exactly what the process is.

  if a gb member died tomorrow, do the remaining ones choose who gets to be next?.

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  Island Man

  The Governing Body picks new members.

  On a side note, I've been wondering if the creation of the Governing Body was not a measure to avoid ugly power struggles and hostile takeovers that would tend to occur when there's a power vacuum?

  I mean, when there is just one figure calling all the shots and that figure dies there's a vacuum that may result in an ugly fight for power and control of the organization such as happened with Rutherford after the death of C.T. Russel. But when you have a Governing Body, power is shared by a collective so the death of an individual never leaves a power vacuum and a political struggle for control. A Governing Body serves to prevent a scenario where there is a complete power vacuum - a scenario that can only occur if all the members died at the same time.

  The GB also serves to preserve the status quo and prevent, or at least deter, radical changes from happening. The collective has to agree for any changes to occur and the collective will tend to appoint only those they trust to preserve the status quo. And even if they appoint a rogue, he is only one person and his rogue ideas will be voted down by the collective.

  This kind of setup means it is likely that there are lot of secret "lobbying" and behind the scenes dealing and bargaining and quid pro quos among members of the GB to establish majority consensus to get changes agreed on. "You support me on this proposed doctrinal change that I'll table at the next meeting and I'll support your idea to raise the stipends for you and all the members of your committee..."